New rules - feedback!

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  • Hi guys, as you know we have new rules starting March 1st. We would like to know what you think about them. Leave your feedback down below. The GMs will consider your feedback and options, they will work on explaining every decision.


    They will have a look at your feedback next week.


    **New Rules Post**


    Please make sure you give constructive feedback and explain your points. This way GM's can get a clear view.

  • As I've mentioned in the rules thread;


    I think the second new rule concerning multiple alts should be revised as it's much harder to enforce or find evidence for.


    Plus there may be cases of players making false reports (quite easy to do).


    Although it will require developer work, FD or MO limit would accomplish what you're trying to achieve without leaving for vagueness/edge cases or people being banned for not understanding the rules.


    (I.E: If two players are account sharing and have those two accounts logged in helping one another and the two accounts have been logged in from both computers previously that too would be in violation of that rule and currently is VERY common).


    +Added:

    Please give clarification on whether prophet/lover buffs from alt account should be allowed if otherwise not in party on map/in same dungeon.


    I personally think they should be allowed as it's not 'exploiting' for gold and once other rules are enforced the player needs to manually level the Prophet anyhow.


    Kind regards,

    Ishan

  • Quote
    • The Following Rule Will Become Active on the 1st of March : Trading with Prepaid Cards, Paysafe Cards or AP Cards for in-game currency is forbidden. Trading shall be restricted to in-game items. (Since AP trading is very extended in Sanctum.


    Uhh... People will still trade it on the downlow. They're still going to sell/ buy, it's either that or loss of revenue is going to come by. No one wants to spend couple of hundred on a GM Wish/ GM Title when they can buy for a cheaper price.

    Quote
    • The Following Rule Will Become Active on the 1st of March : Connecting several accounts simultaneously is only tolerated in the context of the trading or banking. Using 2 or more accounts at the same time to farm dungeons or to grind levels/gold is ABSOLUTELY forbidden.

    So how you going to figure this out?
    Suspicion? Could be false accusations leading someone to get punished.
    Check IP? Nofe95 on discord "What if I have 4 accounts all with different IPs"
    Account sharing was forbidden look how that turned out; dual clienting was forbidden before and look how that turned out.

    Mel on discord you mentioned how it's unfair. How is it unfair? Just because someone is leveling to lvl XX level to easily get gear to then level themselves? Then don't allow archive either. Unfair to new players/character that don't have the gear.

  • I disagree to the 2nd new rule. Why is it you are banning dual logging? Having alts is very useful to us. Back in the days that I am not using my alts in dungeon, its too hard to find a party especially if you don't have a useful party buff or you are not a soloer. Then how can i earn enough gold to buy my gear? Consider that the economy of Grand fantasia is overprice. The inflation is so high. It takes a lot of time farming dungeons. Even looking for a perfect party is time consuming. Don't Ban Dual logging.

  • So, I personally support the AP Card restrictions and my husband and I used to be major in-game buyers of that market. I think that with some slight adjustments to the economy and tiered spenders there will be incentives for sellers to simply use the cards themselves. Maybe consider increasing loyalty reward points when you redeem?

    However, my major concern is the multiclienting rule. One of the incentives to level a character to max level is to run your alts through dungeons. Even players who don't necessarily use exuberant amounts of AP can gear themselves just by leveling to 80 and running their alts through ACV. Some, like myself, also find it cathartic from time to time to just mindless do a few runs. It is certainly a perk for someone who is high level and it doesn't discourage people who are the current level of the dungeon from doing it either. I still see PT/ACV/FT/BFR spam parties.

    I also think that the GMs would be swamped with pointless RTs if this was implemented. We just recently received a notice saying that they were behind on RTs due to an influx of tickets and to be patient...and now they (not necessarily the GMs...) want to add a whole other reportable/bannable issue to that list that currently isn't game breaking or harassing? How will they track it? Will they now have to turn their attention from other issues to focus on possible "dual clienters" that are now suddenly in the same pariah category as gold sellers or botters?

    Please please please don't implement the multiclienting rule. It would be detrimental to the game and discourage people from leveling.

  • Quote
    • The Following Rule Will Become Active on the 1st of March : Trading with Prepaid Cards, Paysafe Cards or AP Cards for in-game currency is forbidden. Trading shall be restricted to in-game items. (Since AP trading is very extended in Sanctum.


    Ok this thing is fine for me because i know that many players use the cards for other games. But this shouldnt be the solution. Not everyone can afford to buy AP with rl money. Why doesnt have Aeria / Gamigo an own shop for cards ? They would get the money and they can ensure that its only for AP. A win win situation for everyone.


    Quote
    • The Following Rule Will Become Active on the 1st of March : Connecting several accounts simultaneously is only tolerated in the context of the trading or banking. Using 2 or more accounts at the same time to farm dungeons or to grind levels/gold is ABSOLUTELY forbidden.

    This is what really pissing me off to be honest. I dont understand why you want to forbid a running system. ( Like never change a running system ). Todays economy in gf is so broken that normal party runs doesnt bring the gold you need for so many things in gf atm. I did a year brake and i have so much stuff to buy because i missed a lot like vs etc. Now how should i afford it with party runs ( max. 4-5k per hour ) if VS stones can cost up to 400k ??? 80h grinding for only 1!!!! stone ? This game is not an AAA game and to force players to cash or play 80h for just a little improvement is ridiculous. If you work and have a family 80 hours can be like 2 month easily and you just have to find a party thats fast and your class should match the party. TBH who takes Darkstalkers in a dungeon party except the got their ulti 86+ ? They are most times useless vs. other classes like druids / warlords. Gunner are nice in pve if you play them nicely but who will take a gunner in the group ? The bosses drops so fast that gunner cant really compare to other classes.


    So with this changes you would exclude several classes of pve content. And in the end only a few players will have good parties that are worth to run with. Most of the parties would be timewasting because the players are not fast enough or good enough to solo a boss or run through the dungeon to help...and to leech someone if i could take a players who helps fighting the bosses i would always take the one who helps.


    A few more facts:


    1 PT Run gives 130g

    1 BFR Run gives 180g

    1 FT Run gives 202.5g


    1 Mclay costs 600-700g


    5 PT runs = 1 Mclay

    4-5 BFR runs = 1 Mclay

    3-4 FT runs = 1 Mclay


    Mclay rates are like 90% failing or useless items.


    You would have to do 1 hour grind for 5-6 Mclays...and its possible that all these clays will fail. How should you afford to get items then ?

    P2W players who buy AP for 200$ can get 1.400 Mclays with b1g2. So 1.400 clays / 5-6 clays per hour ->


    233.33 Hour grind when you can afford 6 clays per hour....233.33 hours PURE dungeon grind without doing anything else....


    If i would work 233.33 hours i would get 3.500€ minimum. That would be ~24.500 clays.... You see the diffrence ? p2w will f**** every normal player in this game with these rules.

  • First off i'd like to ask how any of this is going to be monitored, as it would be so easy for someone to be falsely accused just because they aren't liked, or said no to doing something for free/doesn't wish to help. And if they are are you going to do something to put it right? Its not something that is going to be easy to prove either. With selling pins and stuff like that, no one is going to report anyone for selling/buying if they are a trusted seller/buyer. The rule about selling/buying AP though e-pins isn't a well thought out one, in my opinion, and should be revised. You already provided at one stage a list of players who are safe to buy from/sell to and that seemed to be a good thing, and pleased a lot of players, is there no way to continue this system?


    Quote

    The Following Rule Will Become Active on the 1st of March : Connecting several accounts simultaneously is only tolerated in the context of the trading or banking. Using 2 or more accounts at the same time to farm dungeons or to grind levels/gold is ABSOLUTELY forbidden.

    I run two accounts on the same pc, I'd like to get some clarification on this rule. I run my main character on my main account and have a secondary character on a second account which i use for the lover buff when in same map.

    Soon I'll be lvling that character while my engineer is left in the same map, then if i need a boss/dungeon for main quests i can help myself instead of hearing people say 'Sorry can't help no point in run that dungeon' which i get frequently, because I don't feel i should pay anyone for a single run when they charge more what i'd get for the mission rewards, just because i needed to run that dungeon once/twice for the main quests. For those of us who do not grind dungeons for lvls/gold, is it fair to deny us the right to use a higher lvl character of our own to help a new character we also own?

    Not only that a lot of people plvl their own characters to save time, does this fall under allowing us to plvl or under this new rule about using multiple accounts and farming for lvling?

    And thirdly, something i and many others do, if we are running our low lvl character on an alt account we also like having our high lvl character to be online as well so if a guildie or someone else asks for help we can just swap windows instead of logging in off one account to log in to another, is this still going to be allowed?

    I'm sure there are many other ways to enforce the farming rule, however it can be difficult to make gold in this game without farming! And with the prices on AH/trade being high for anything we need/want many people have to use a system that allows them to get gold quick. Maybe having a daily mission order limit will reduce it this but i see no reason why people can't farm dungeons, many have to just for materials they need to craft gear, so they would in turn make a few lvls/gold so it would be against this rule which makes no sense.

    Again how is this going to be proven/enforced? I know when my boyfriend visits or my dad is using his account we can have 3 accounts at least on at once over three computers, is this going to fall under this too? (and I'm talking an extreme case and I feel again this should be clarified for those who also see this as using multiple accounts)

    This is one rule that defiantly needs looking at and either removing or revising as it could hinder a lot of players and possibly stop them playing.


    That being said the other rules are the same as always and I see no issues with them.

  • 1. The AP rule

    So, about that, this is how it's gonna play out:

    -people will stop buying AP cards because they can't sell them anymore, and using them is less profitable

    -AP buyers won't really be willing to spend hundreds of dollars on AP, so in case you were thinking about the money loss being covered that way, it won't be. It'll turn quite the opposite, because the AP buyers won't see any profit in buying only 15k AP (just an example), when the other 15k they can't get from other players anymore and they don't wanna spend extra money to get the 30k AP needed for a GM wish.

    -with the loss of active AP buyers, the amount of m-clay purchases will also diminish, making clay prices start jumping up again, thus destabilizing the economy again

    -new players who just joined the game, and who are potentially gonna be future AP spenders, will quit the game because all prices will be extremely high for them and they won't have a chance to catch up with the other players


    To sum it all up, you'll lose the AP card sellers who spend money on AP cards and sell them for in-game currency, AP card buyers who buy those AP cards from the sellers and add in some extra cash themselves to make up for any possible lack of sellers, and potential future AP buyers and sellers because they won't be able to do anything significant due to the economy being ruined by a lower supply of m-clays and higher demand, which will also lead to higher prices overall.

    Just remember how many people quit the game when clay prices shot up to 1k each from 400-500 a few years back within a week. Applying this rule will force that same situation to happen.



    2. Alt rule

    I'll just get this off of my chest first: this rule is completely and absolutely asinine. Starting with the simplest and most obvious oversight of how to prove it.

    First off, players have absolutely no way to be 100% certain that someone is dual logging. Literally. Not a single legal way to prove it for certain. So players can only go off of suspicions. Which leads to the second issue.

    So let's say you get 15-20 reports of dual-logging, but have no definite proof. You can either a) start banning people based on assumptions, which will cause an outrage and people will quit, or b) you'll have to have multiple people tracking the reported players and supposed alts in order to find definitive proof, and quite frankly I don't think the GF GM team has that much free time on their hands. Using a person's IP as proof isn't gonna cut it either because of VPNs. Some people will use a VPN, while others won't even bother and will just say "goodbye" to the game.

    Then there's also the third problem, which is the opposite twin brother of the 2nd one. How many people will even bother to document and report dual logging? To even cause suspicion, they need several instances to have at least some proof. And even then, lots of people are either friends or at least on good terms with each other. Why would they try to get a friend banned? And there's also the "I don't tell on you, you don't tell on me" possibility, which seems more than likely to happen.


    I simple can't see any real reason for this to be a thing, save for people who use multiple accounts to farm money in dungeons. But again, those people can use unknown alts, be alone in a party with them and never get reported.




    I'd really like to know the thought process of the GMs and/or PMs who came up with these 2 rules and what good they possibly see in them.

  • The Following Rule Will Become Active on the 1st of March : Trading with Prepaid Cards, Paysafe Cards or AP Cards for in-game currency is forbidden. Trading shall be restricted to in-game items. (Since AP trading is very extended in Sanctum.



    First of all, i think you should revise this, selling/ buying ap card, Buying GM wish and GM title is already a pain. You don't expect people to spend 250$- 300$ just to get the GM wish, not everyone can afford that. AP buyers are mostly the one selling the new release costume, CBM, GM wish, GM title, etc. If you really want to banned selling/buying ap, might as well make the GM wish cheaper and the rest of the items in Item mall.


    The Following Rule Will Become Active on the 1st of March : Connecting several accounts simultaneously is only tolerated in the context of the trading or banking. Using 2 or more accounts at the same time to farm dungeons or to grind levels/gold is ABSOLUTELY forbidden.


    This rules is seriously need to be revise, I don't think you should forbid multi client, for those people who don't spend much on ap cards this is the only way to get gold in game instantly, imagine doing dungeon with 1 character... After 10 years you're still poor... some people can't even catch up because of the broken economy. Also What if people report someone is dual logging, how will you prove it? what if it's a false accusation? IP? seriously that's a lot of work for you and you don't want that. I hope this feedback thread will make change on the new rules, because obviously it's not a good move, the rules are not yet effective and some of the people are already quitting, you don't want to make the game more dead right?


    “Always put yourself in others' shoes. If you feel that it hurts you, it probably hurts the other person, too.”

  • AP Card Restriction


    I'm still not sure what to feel about this rule. It isn't like siwa where it's a new server where people would willingly sink so much cash in because there are aren't any other way (supply in the market) to get the items that they do want. So if you're hoping for it to be somewhat like your test run in siwa, you'll probably have to rethink that strategy.


    I can guarantee there will still be AP trades even with this rule. It will be on other platforms, and there will be big players, players who owns big chunks of the economy in this game, that you'll probably brush off and avoid banning because it'll be a huge loss of profit.


    At most, for me personally, it is a minor inconvenience not having a way to acquire gold/items faster just by spending some loose change. But you are inadvertently creating so much more work for the whole management team creating rules which does not need any fixing in the first place.


    Not to mention this game and management has never had the best track record when it comes to player support and answering tickets. No offense, but they're just facts.


    Pros:

    • 50/50 you'll probably earn money/lose more paying players this way, maybe I should just put this in the cons part. :/
    • I honestly can't think of anything that's a + for the players for this. Like kait said, you could tweak the tiered spenders and bring back the good incentives we used to have way back to encourage players to use the cards themselves. But we see no news about this so I'm not going to hold my breath and hope for the best. :rolleyes:

    Cons:

    • Small players who occasionally buy AP to fund their game play will probably stop buying ap because who's there to sell to? Oh wait, you can't. It's against the rules!
    • On the other hand, you still won't be able to stop the AP trades unless you do something about incentivizing people to spend their own AP instead.
    • Increase in possible falsified reports about people trading AP. Possible cause of big drama for big ap buying players who gets *gasp* betrayed by sellers, etc.


    Dual Logging


    I have very strong opinions for this, as I quite like multitasking and occupying my time with multiple characters at once. If you're going to implement a rule like this, it should've been implemented at the start. Honest to god, this is the only game I've ever played where rules are constantly renegotiated with players for advertised "good changes!" in the game which never really come into fruition.


    I can't speak for everyone, but as a person who uses multiple accounts to do my daily gf gaming:

    • I do contribute a lot more to the economy, which, at the end of the day, is always a plus for you guys.
    • As a player who already has a maxed character, one of the reasons I still play is because I can keep making new characters and still participate in lower bracket activities like dungeon, low-level pvp, etc.
    • It gives the illusion of more players playing. I dare you to compare game statistics of a before and after. If players are actually going to follow this rule.

    Pros:

    • It's magically going to be fair for everyone because you can only use one character at a time now! Oh wait..
    • Nothing is designed to be fair in this game.

    Cons:

    • You're giving more reasons for players who keeps holding on to this game to quit.
    • Unless you're willing to comb through the IP of everyone who's logged in every hour of the day to check who might be dual logging + go to the extremes of verifying if they are breaking the "dual logging" rule based on the vague parameters you have set, please don't make any more work load for the team that you can't properly handle.
    • Did I mention more reports? But at this point, it's not like we're expecting the support to be stellar.

    tl;dr

    Once you read through the sass or want to avoid it, what I do want to say is that to please stop half-assing players by giving us half-baked ideas and measures on how to improve the game. Immerse your GMs and PMs into the game and in the economy to make better choices, listen to the GSes who knows what they're talking about. Present us with valid reasons as to why you're changing something that has inherently become a subculture in this game. You owe it to your players for supporting this game for this long.


    tl;dr summary:

    • Please immerse your gm/pm team in the actual game culture and economy.
    • Please listen to your gs team, they know what they're talking about.
    • Please give us valid, adequately reasonable reasons as to why you're making big changes in the game.
    • Make this worthwhile for us, too. Not just for the company.
  • So these new rules, which as far as i know have never been rules in the past, seem to be implimented at all time low player base, so in order to get people to spend more ap, you can no longer dual log to plvl urself or run urself thru dungeons? Its like aeria wants to slow you down, and set you back so you just say "screw it" and give in to buying ap. Aeria losing money on GF so they want to mix up the rules as an attempt to get people to buy ap. Thats my conspiracy theory

  • Buying/selling ap to other players and doing dungeons on alts has been on gf since the start, I'm not sure what kind of greed triggered you to make this rule.

    AP Buying:

    - Huge AP spenders will no longer spend their money in this game because they won't make profit just by spending their own without buying ap from other players to reach their goal tiers which would give them profit and bring more items for the economy to consume.
    - This game depends heavily on those ap spenders, a huge chunk of the economy are controlled by these big ap spenders and most of the time, they're the ones who have circulating gold power which enables them to buy the ap from smaller players while also spending money on their own ap.
    Having this rule will result to a loss in income for the game, not to mention the economy destabilzing because the supply of the items which these ap spenders supply can easily run out in due time.

    Dual Logging:

    - Like I've mentioned, we've had this in the game for a while now. It's a practice we've had from the start, why remove it now?
    - Banning multiple characters from dungeons will also destabilize the economy, without the spending power non-ap spenders acquire from doing alt dungeon runs, who will consume the supply of the items in the game?
    - Having this rule will also encourage rule breaking as it has already become a standard in the game. There's so many things that could go wrong with reporting someone who might be possibly dual logging, since there's no proper way to prove that they are. - Powerleveling shouldn't even be an issue, it's a commodity in the game and you can't fault people for wanting to save some gold by powerleveling themselves. They aren't harming the economy in any way by doing this. - If the main point of this rule is to make things fair.... you need to either: remove exp charms in game or ban buying/selling of plvl completely.


    just my 2 cents

  • >Remove AP Selling

    >Improve your garbage Tiered Spenders


    You won't get away with doing one.

    This I have to agree with. I'm glad you are removing AP trade. But you really need to update the spenders.

  • I agree with all of the above, especially the fact if youre going to remove AP card selling then you need to either make the teirs cheaper, or the items more obtainable. Especially GM Wishes/titles. Instead of having titles and wishes as the same thing, make titles and wishes seperate again.

  • honestly most ap card buyers these days cant even afford to buy ap anymore because the teirs have been so crap that nothing on them is selling for the value that they buy ap in...

  • They said we can dual log when trading or banking. How would they know if im dual logging for dungeons or trading? They gonna monitor us when we have are banks online? this doesnt make sense.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Tenshi: Also another thing can we dual log if my lowbie needs help to defeat a guild boss real quick because nobody will help me, since its in the rules we cant beg? can we use are PPs to buff ourselves? what if my bank alt is a PP and i buff myself while trading? hmmmm ().

    • The Following Rule Will Become Active on the 1st of March : Trading with Prepaid Cards, Paysafe Cards or AP Cards for in-game currency is forbidden. Trading shall be restricted to in-game items. (Since AP trading is very extended in Sanctum.

    As someone whom doesn't participate in the AP trade (I prefer to directly use the AP) this doesn't affect me, personally, all that much. But, I do see how it could hurt, in some way or another, those whom do participate in this; especially the ones whom provide the service with honesty and integrity.


    This seems like a case of treating a papercut with skin grafting or cauterizing. The revoking of a privilege for the majority of those whom don't cause grief because of that minority whom do. The solution has always been there, and you even said it yourself: "All transactions done between players are at the players' risk!"


    Quite frankly, if you're going to ban this, you should also prohibit the ability to trade between servers. The risk is just as great.

    Quote
    • The Following Rule Will Become Active on the 1st of March : Connecting several accounts simultaneously is only tolerated in the context of the trading or banking. Using 2 or more accounts at the same time to farm dungeons or to grind levels/gold is ABSOLUTELY forbidden.

    Tell us when you plan to speak with the developers to implement a mechanic to completely stop powerleveling. Tell us when you plan to have the developers implement a set of code to prevent multiple instances of Grand Fantasia to be run on the same PC.


    Is a character sitting outside of a dungeon there for powerleveling or for banking? Is a character inside a dungeon there for powerleveling, or is it simply a pack mule with items for both the runner's and others' benefit; or there to handle any gold overflow that the runner may face when running others?


    As has been said before: You can't truly tell. And, if you're going on the honor system of the rest of the community to be honest when it comes to a case of dual-logging then you're going to be sorely disappointed. Anyone here from the days of the US team remember how well that played out for botters paranoia? I memba.


    Before you implement rules and policies that may seem beneficial, you need to think these kinds of things through. Especially if they've been an integral part of the game since the very beginning. You need to account for every contingency, and seeing the lack of the line "case-by-case basis" shows that there's nothing but demand for blind adherence with no middle ground.


    I'm not going to say that these rules will put the final nail in the coffin for Grand Fantasia. The game's seen a lot worse come from above. But these wounds are going to be deep, and take a long time to heal, if they ever do.

  • What if there is players who dual log, but to mainly help there characters with bosses and such. why do they have to be affected when some never made gold off of dual logging before?

  • The Following Rule Will Become Active on the 1st of March : Connecting several accounts simultaneously is only tolerated in the context of the trading or banking. Using 2 or more accounts at the same time to farm dungeons or to grind levels/gold is ABSOLUTELY forbidden.


    That is a serieus problem because i play with serveral friends at the same time and they come to my place or i go to theres and the connect to my or there internet then we have the same ip because it is the same internet i believe but with this new rule we can never play together again and i have been playing GF long time (8,5 years) now and also a long time with my friends and i do not want it to stop because of this rule

  • In order for people to stop the dual logging they need to add something to force players to stop. Just like players were to forced to stop using candies in dungeons and PVP. Other than that people will still dual log as normal.

  • Quote
    • The Following Rule Will Become Active on the 1st of March : Connecting several accounts simultaneously is only tolerated in the context of the trading or banking. Using 2 or more accounts at the same time to farm dungeons or to grind levels/gold is ABSOLUTELY forbidden.



    I ask to myself everyday i see rules similar to that: Why not just make 2 clients on a PC not work anymore? instead of making a "rule" for it.


    To me this rule will make Siwa server fail, server don't have too many people right now, and it will make people quit, cause people will not make a good amount of gold in a nice time to buy m-clay anymore. "i'm not a dun farmer"


    About multiple accounts to grind level, i understand staff don't want people to rush level on a new class, it is acceptable. But to me for example, if i have a lv 100 char, i "really" don't want to level another class killing mob by mob, doing quest by quest in a slowing way as i have done before. "maybe make this grind level rule only work for the new class for a short period?"

  • None of these new rules really effect me I've never been able to duel log and I don't sell AP anymore. However getting gold in the game isn't easy, I sell Mclay for gold, it's not my first choice but I can't exactly solo a dungeon on my alts and getting a party is impossible, buying runs ain't any better. The reason Is 1. My characters aren't strong enough to be considered for a party because people have stupid expectations on who should be in a party, especially when it comes to PT and magic classes. Secondly if you lag to much you get kicked because your losing them money.

  • They will check when there is a large gold exchange

  • They will check when there is a large gold exchange

    My friend decided to give me a gift of 120k gold for a special occasion. Tbh if people are smart about it there is absolutely no way they can prove people are buying / selling cards. I'm in total agreement with everyone above who has posted their views against the new rules. There was no need for this and it will do nothing but hurt this already dying game and it's a major kick in the teeth to the people who are still sticking with this game. If they are going to ban selling / buying AP cards then make the TS VASTLY better then it currently is. As for the dual logging rule just get rid of it please. It's not needed or wanted.

  • Connecting several accounts simultaneously is only tolerated in the context of the trading or banking. Using 2 or more accounts at the same time to farm dungeons or to grind levels/gold is ABSOLUTELY forbidden.



    Why? its not necessary ! X/

  • People need to stop crying about the fact that removing AP selling will "hurt the economy". Not necessarily, here's what will happen.


    I will dumb it down as much as I can for those who are not enlightened on this topic regarding economics and what not.


    Because now most players effectively have less gold due to the fact that they can't sell AP (and no multi clienting), items will naturally drop in value. What we need to do here as players (and Aeria) :


    A. is beg Aeria to improve their tiered spenders (AND THEIR CLAY TABLES) to improve the flow of items into the game


    B. increase the flow of gold into players' (not drastically) pockets from the game itself, since you guys removed multi clienting (which is basically why everything was so expensive in the first place), look for ways to improve gold flow from dungeons and other pve based events to support some of the loss of gold income.


    My final point will just be a summary.


    C. since everything will become effectively cheaper (as it should), those who use to sell AP cards will now need to start selling clays (or use, depending on the quality of tables) and tiered spender items like they use to way back, however, Aeria has to step up and seriously improve their clay tables and tiered spenders. Those who use to multi client will not really be hurt as they were the ones inflating everything in the first place since they could grind for insane amounts of gold in relatively short periods of time (if you consider the amount of gold they were making it was worth the effort). Doing dungeons normally, considering everything should become cheaper, they will still be able to afford items. Finally those who use to buy AP will likely just have to go back to merching (buy low sell high).


    I think in the long term this is a much better move but Aeria has to play it right, and judging by the past its hard to trust them on that lol.

  • Jets knows da wae.

  • So people who do not dual log for gold at all or for any money reasons. Will they allow us to buff ourselves with are alt PPs so if we have to do a MQ dungeon on our own? can we raid ourselves? can i dual log to help a new character i created to kill a guild boss for me so i can get the quest done?

  • I'm sorry how will items become less valuable. The way I see it items will become more valuable, because ppl are not going to spend hundreds on ap. The less items there are the higher the price. The demand will stay the same but stock levels will fall because there will be no one to provide it. Providers are going to milk every last copper they can out of people, banning duel logging just makes the situation worse because people won't be able to afford necessities, due to the inflation that will happen.

  • I'm sorry how will items become less valuable. The way I see it items will become more valuable, because ppl are not going to spend hundreds on ap. The less items there are the higher the price. The demand will stay the same but stock levels will fall because there will be no one to provide it. Providers are going to milk every last copper they can out of people, banning duel logging just makes the situation worse because people won't be able to afford necessities, due to the inflation that will happen.

    This.

  • lol, when everyone is poor, you really think they are going to fall for higher prices.


    I will dumb it down again.


    People will still spend AP and if Aeria chooses the right decision they will improve tiered spenders and improve tables as an incentive to spend more money on AP.


    You fail to understand that when there is lower overall gold in the economy that the prices of items in general will fall no matter the stock level because people literally cannot afford it.


    If you have a population of poor people and they literally cannot afford your items you will be forced to lower your price point to a level at which it is affordable.


    I made this clear in my post, I even bolded it. Aeria has to improve their spenders and tables for what I said to come into play. Prices of items will naturally fall, you cannot justify the price of items not falling when literally everyone on the server is bound to become poorer.


    There is literally less gold in the economy, as such, prices fall.

  • let me dumb it down for you since you don't understand. Less gold does not make things less valuable. If people want an item especially if it's rare, they will find a way to get the money and pay the prices.

  • Okay let me give you an example then Mr.Genius. Why is everything in China so much cheaper than things here in US/Canada. Hmm, probably because everyone earns less money (in a simple sense).


    In a similar case, when everyone has less gold, no matter what, items will be less expensive, even the rare items. Cheap enough for people to afford within a reasonable matter.


    And those rare items are not great in number, the majority of items such as costumes, clays, consumes, nucs will be provided through the clay table and spenders. There isn't going to be anything so rare that its going to be so expensive that no one in the game will be able to afford it, it will always reach a level which players in the game can afford.

  • Okay let me give you an example then Mr.Genius. Why is everything in China so much cheaper than things here in US/Canada. Hmm, probably because everyone earns less money (in a simple sense).


    In a similar case, when everyone has less gold, no matter what, items will be less expensive, even the rare items. Cheap enough for people to afford within a reasonable matter.


    And those rare items are not great in number, the majority of items such as costumes, clays, consumes, nucs will be provided through the clay table and spenders. There isn't going to be anything so rare that its going to be so expensive that no one in the game will be able to afford it, it will always reach a level which players in the game can afford.

    Comparing RL economics to the economics in a dying mmo really isn't a good way to judge how you THINK things will end up. And let's not forget that your entire premise is based on the idea that AG will give us more bang for our buck with AP. There's optimism, and then there's delusion.

  • Welcome to forums where one does have to make such unrealistic comparisons to get across a point to certain individuals.


    I also kept saying "in a simple sense" and "assuming Aeria improves tiered spenders etc." regarding your other point.


    I am aware of what I am saying, completely bashing Aeria for removing multi clienting and arguing through emotions instead of logically justifying our opinions won't get us anywhere.


    As I said, in the long term this is a better option in my opinion, if Aeria play their cards right.

  • The new rule for AP cards will be an overall benefit to the system. You can still trade items for cards that give AP but there is much less incentive for someone to spend or sell an AP card that does not end up being used on the game.


    It should be no secret that there are players who intentionally inflate the price of an item to profit and then not use the AP card on GF at all. It wasn't that bad when AP card buying/selling was first allowed but it went sour very fast. It is these players that ruined the system and why this rule is in place at all.


    Both these were happening:

    -> Game Prices inflate

    -> No true value was being put into the game from the AP spent.


    Concerning currency as both a marketer and someone who has multi-cliented alot; the new ruling won't really reduce the gold in the system. It'll just be runs being sold rather than being ran with alts. Selling 30 BFR runs for 100g ea is still a great way to get gold and that's good, people will actually be able to buy things from the auction.


    I'm sure marketters know that feel when you've put something in for auction at 70k. it doesn't sell and then 60k know you sure you could get that value and have it come back. I would rather get my monies worth, it'll just be distributed between more of the population due to the way they've changed the dungeon rule.


    The gold making cycle should still be able to continue under these new rules

    (Buy during good tables and start of month claying spree -> people with no time and low patience (most people) buy -> excess gold used to buy items that people are willing to trade cards for). If dungeon selling does become a thing again, people on the whole will also have more gold so there's a larger audience of impatient buyers.

  • On AP card rule...


    Yes, I really hope this will be removed. However as others have already stated, if you are going to do this, please improve the tiered spenders. 50 NT clays on tier 1 is good, but most other tiers are simply not enough.


    On logging multiple accounts rule...


    There are two major problems with running dungeons with alts;


    1- Way too much gold is added into the game by every single person.

    2- This absolutely kills party runs, as you can make 4-5x more gold by running a dungeon with your alts.


    For these reasons, I really hope running dungeons with alts wont be a thing anymore. Party runs should be back, and people shouldnt be able to make 20k+ gold every 30 mins.


    That being said, this rule should only be restricted to making gold in dungeons. So people should be allowed to;


    - Plvl their alts

    - Buff their main characters with their alts

    - Keep alt characters logged to do trades/farm fames/farm with sprites etc


    Also, please consider increasing the gold reward from lvl 86+ dungeons if you are going to implement this rule.