Short Link: tiny.cc/gfgold
I'm writing this thread in an attempt to bring some sense of urgency and awareness to the state of Grand Fantasia's economy.
As I'm sure you've all noticed, recently, the price for a lot of items in the game has drastically increased.
Where not so long ago you may have been paying 800 gold for something like 'Magic Alchemy Clay', the price of this item has now increased to 1,400 gold.
This thread will be looking into the reasons why.
If you don't want to read the rest of the thread, I have included a helpful video to sum up the issue in just under 5 minutes:
For those who are willing to read the thread and get a little more information, please continue.
In an attempt to get to the bottom of this issue, I began to gather data so that a graph could be produced, and we'd be able to gain a much clearer picture.
I decided to reference the gold value of $20 Aeria Point Cards when they were still allowed to be traded.
Aeria Point cards were a prime candidate for comparison, as they have a constant supply and their value barely changes.
I chose the $20 variation of AP Cards because they appeared to be the most popular, and therefore are the easiest to find data for.
I scraped the old forums for trade threads using the 'Wayback Machine', an online tool that allows you to see the contents of cached websites.
I also pulled information from the #trade_sanctum section of the Grand Fantasia Discord.
I managed to find information as far back as the end of 2011.
I plotted this all down into a line graph, and interpolated it with the help of the player Adamont.
Interpolation means that where there are gaps of data in the dates on the graph, the increase and decrease of gold has been estimated in relation to how much it changed in the next data point.
This helps give a much more reliable overview on how gold has changed throughout the years.
Here is the graph:
Google Sheets of the graph: https://docs.google.com/spread…7W6XuGZI/edit?usp=sharing
The sources for all of the information can be found here:
From the years 2011 to some time in 2015, the value of gold remains mostly stable.
However, as you can see, there are two particular points on the graph where gold begins to inflate and its value decreases.
The first of these points is around the 8th of March 2015.
At this point into my research, I had downloaded the entirety of the Grand Fantasia news post archive, so I could search for information.
Looking at news around this date, I determined that it was at this time that the Mission Order Limitation was removed from the game.
You can find this news post here:
The second point of inflation is around the 9th of November 2016.
In my many searches into the news archive, I could not find any mention of Final Destination being removed at all - so I decided to take a look at the old forum posts around this time using the wayback machine.
I found this page of General Discussion for the 2nd of December 2016:
On this page I found two recently published (At the time) forum threads talking about the removal of Final Destination.
The last post in the first thread is on the 22nd of November 2016, while the last post on the second thread is on the 27th.
What this suggests is that Final Destination was removed sometime close to, but before the 22nd of November 2016.
So I dig back into my news posts and look for the closest patch around that time.
The 9th of November 2016.
Lining up perfectly with the gold inflation shown on the graph.
Okay so at this point it should be fairly clear what the cause of this inflation is, the next question is 'why?'
So to understand that we're going to need to talk about Gold Generation.
Gold Generation is the process of bringing gold into the game from nowhere.
This does not include gold that is traded among the players, as this gold has already been generated.
In Grand Fantasia there are three primary ways to generate gold:
- Killing Monsters
- Selling Items.
So of course I did the only thing I could...
I took apart the client, and made a Google Sheets doc showing the payout of every single REP (Repeatable) quest in the game, as well as the price of selling every item in the game to an NPC.
You can find this sheet here:
Mission Orders have been highlighted in green.
What I discovered, was that Mission Order quests pay out roughly 94% more than any other quest at their respective level.
They also pay out more than any normal Level 100 REP quest at level 50.
The highest paying Mission Order is 250 gold per run, while one of the most commongly run Mission Orders (Phoenix Tower at level 70) pays out 135 gold.
If you're familiar with the game, looking at the Sell Prices tab, you can see that the sell price of any item that is above 1 gold is not very easy to farm - making this source of generation unreliable.
I was not able to find data on the pay out of monsters in the game, however if you compare a regular Level 100 repeatable quest such as 'L98. Take out the Traitors (REP)', this quest pays out 15 gold and 50 silver.
The requirements for this quest are as follows:
Hunt 35 x Lv. 98 Baptized Investigation Member
Hunt 35 x Lv. 98 Brainwashed Investigation Member
Essentially to kill 70 monsters.
So to make sure I had a good comparison, I decided to test how much a mob from the end game dungeon 'Distorted Dimension' pays out, which I have recorded here:
As you can see from the video , 1 standard monster drops 16 silver and 81 copper.
Even if I were to kill 70 of these monsters, I would still only be given 11 Gold 58 Silver 70 Copper, which not close to the 15 gold and 50 silver that the REP Quest gives.
This shows us that quests are the best form of gold generation overall.
Ontop of this as mentioned previously, Mission Orders pay out roughly 94% more than an average quest at the same level.
So it is fairly clear where all this gold is coming from.
So why is all this gold causing the graph to rise?
Well, that is because Grand Fantasia's gold sinks are not sufficient enough to keep up with this huge supply of new gold.
A gold sink is the opposite of generating gold.
Gold sinks take gold out of the game entirely and remove it from the server.
Some examples of gold sinks are:
- Buying from an NPC
- Teleporting to a map
- Auction House sales tax when selling an item
- The cost of fortifying equipment
All of these methods remove gold from the game.
However, as any experienced player can tell you - the gold these sinks remove are not in any way comparable to the gold that is given to players for completing a Mission Order quest.
Teleporting to one of the highest level maps in the game 'Alternate Kaslow Plains' costs only 33 gold
One of the most expensive items available from an NPC is the 'Extreme Specialized Reset Stone I'
This item resets an extreme specialization skill that is below level 91.
How often do you reset your extreme specialization skills?
Probably not very often, but let's make a comparison anyway:
That is 112 Mission Orders at Level 70 in Phoenix Tower.
The sales tax for selling an item in the auction house at maximum gold (99,999) is 4999 gold, 95 silver and 24 copper.
For comparison, this works out at 37.03 Phoenix Tower Mission Order runs.
Now these may seem like a fair amount of Mission Order runs on an individual level, but on a global scale when you add up all of the times Mission Orders are being completed on the server, it is not very much at all, and this is comparing it to a level 70 Mission order.
Gold Sinks are the only way gold is removed from the game, and the only way to keep the amount of gold coming in at a similar level to the gold going out - keeping the value of gold and the price of items at a balanced level.
These are the best gold sinks in Grand Fantasia, and they are not capable of keeping up with the amount of gold that is being generated since the removal of Mission Order Limits and Final Destination.
Why is lack of Final Destination a problem?
The removal of Final Destination as a requirement meant that players no longer had to enter the last boss room of a dungeon to complete the quest.
Some players took this opportunity sit at the entrance of a dungeon while another player farmed the dungeon on their behalf.
Many take this a step further, by creating up to 5 alternative characters
and complete the dungeon for all 5 of them, while only putting in the work required for one.
You can see a video of this here:
This meant that not only could players now generate an unlimited of gold at a rate 94% higher than any other method in the game, but they could also generate it 5 times in one go.
The game does not remove gold at anywhere near this speed, so gold has filled the server, and the prices of every day items are continuing to increase.
This game needs Mission Order Limitations and Final Destination to even begin on its path to economic recovery.
In addition, further gold sinks need to be added or improved upon in an attempt to drain the excess gold that has been added to the server during this 3 year period.
For some time now, I've been presenting my findings to the CMs and other Grand Fantasia staff.
However, it's quickly become apparent that it's very unlikely that anything is going to be done about it.
It is of my understanding that the primary reason for this is that it may upset some of the playerbase as not everybody understand the reasons why; so I am turning to you, the players, in hopes that you will show them that they are wrong, and you DO want the economy fixed.
The economy is the most important part of any MMO.
- It is the reason players farm items.
- It is the reason players trade items with one another.
- It is the reason players are rewarded for their hard work.
Without these problems being fixed,
- Players will need to work harder (run more dungeon runs) for the same value reward, as the pay out from dungeons does not change with the value of gold.
- You may take an extended break from the game and find that your gold is worth a lot less than before you left.
- Item will continue to increase in price.
It is important to note that while Mission Orders could potentially capped off at any level, the more times you allow people to run them, the higher you need to make the gold sinks take away even more money, costing players even more gold.
If this continues, it's highly likely that players will eventually leave and the game will slowly die out.
This has actually happened briefly before, around the period of 2011-2012.
I did some investigating and discovered that on August 23rd 2011, the MO cap was set to 20.
You can see this on the graph, with a small spike around this time.
The server suffered from severe inflation at that time in comparison to what it was used to before.
this resulted in many frustrated threads like these:
So, following this, in a patch on February 8th 2012, the MO cap was set back to 5
Final Destination was then implemented on September 23rd 2013 because gold was becoming a problem again (according to a news post at that time, which I believe was by GM Tora)
You can see this here:
This promptly fixed the issue altogether, as the graph will show you.
In comparison to the inflation we face now, this was a minor influx of gold - and this caused an outcry.
So in a sense, I'm trying to cause that same outcry now in a hope to see some change, but this time with a little more data to reference.
If any positive can be made to this game while I am a GS, I hope that it can be this one.
Please discuss below.
If you want your voice to be heard, say something.
Pray for Grand Fantasia
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