Organized Weekly/Monthly PvP Matches and a new Ranked Leaderboard System Proposal by Jets

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  • Hey guys, my name is Jets and I am happy to share a few of my proposals (nothing set in stone) on how the current PvP scene can be improved and supported.


    (Also sorry if this post is a mess I am not really good at formatting this stuff)

    Bio



    Before we get into things, I would like to introduce myself a bit more. I have been playing GF since Gaias creation, and played on several characters until I finally settled on this Templar about a year and a half ago (almost 2 years this May). I have been camping the level 80 bracket ever since for no other reason than pure enjoyment and the competitive drive many players bring here. I have already gotten my PvP set for 100, but I do not plan on moving anytime soon. My point is, for some people, playing PvP does not have to be some chore for their PvP set, but rather a place where they can compete against each other to prove who is best (or just for fun!).



    Intro



    Alright, let's get down to business. Currently, there are some problems in GF’s PvP scene :



    Activity



    Every single bracket other than 71-80 and 91-100 is dead. There is no denying that, and 80 has effectively become pitstop bracket for people to farm their PvP sets onto 100, which is the only thing keeping this bracket from dying as well.



    Unused Alts



    While this is linked to activity, I think it deserves its own sub heading. My main concern with this is that there are tons of people at 100 who have alts all across the board, in every single bracket, yet there is no incentive for them to participate because the brackets are simply too dead. How do we get people to use their alts more often?



    Sheer Lack of Rewards



    This is basically the root of all problems in GFs PvP right now. It's such a simple problem with such simple solutions that it does not deserve to be left unsolved. Going back to my point about 80, this bracket is literally only being kept alive by people who come here to farm their PvP sets for 100. There's simply no incentive AT ALL other than PvP sets. This is unacceptable in my opinion.



    My Thoughts and Solutions



    Look, there's no denying there have been previous attempts to reignite the passion of PvP before, but the issue with those attempts was that they were always short term and built on a poor and rushed foundation that was not stable enough to hold everything together. There's no way PvP will be kept alive consistently without a constant flow of rewards, whether tradable or non tradable items, titles, GM wishes, whatever the case may be, this game mode is not at its full potential. I understand that it's hard to organize these sort of things which is why I am here to cut out a lot of the work for the GMs and GSs and hopefully it will be easier for you guys to sort things out.



    Weekly or Monthly PvP Ranked Matches


    Quick Note : If I mention anything about points being deducted, it is regarding the ranked system and may not be set in stone. Just ignore it until you get further down.



    The key word here is ranked, but I will save that part for later. Lets just talk about the matches in general and what they would mean. To minimize the amount of effort staff would need to take to organize these matches, I recommend that they are held once every week or month. There is an advantage to holding it weekly, which I will get into later as well. For the meantime, let's talk about what makes these matches different.



    Organized but randomized!



    First of all, players will be asked to register their names for the upcoming match 48 hours before commencing. Why on such short notice? To avoid troll registrations and people who fail to show up. It's simple, if you are there, you get to play, if not, your loss. GMs or GSs should be around to take in names and randomize the players into sorted teams to make way for a fair match.



    What if I get matched with ungeared players or lowbies?



    There will be restrictions set in place for this very reason. First, players must be the maximum level of their respective bracket. For example, if you are to compete within the 71-80 bracket, you must be level 80. Furthermore, players must have a full set of gear that is all at least +15.



    What if a player trolls in my ranked match?



    Rating will not be deducted, the player will be banned from competing in all matches, compensation rewards will be given as players have wasted their time playing. Furthermore, teams will not be revealed to players so that they cannot dodge a match. If a player dodges a match, it will be counted as a loss for that player only, and the match will not commence as a 3v4, instead a substitute can come in or the match will be completely called off.



    What if a player rage quits?



    The RQ will receive a loss, while their team will not have any points deducted. The enemy team will still receive a win should they win that match. If the team with a RQ still wins the match, they will gain points. RQ’s will receive punishment should they commit the act again.



    What if a player rage quits to save their friends/team from losing points?



    Match fixing is extremely prohibited. If the GM/GS team find a case of possible match fixing, the players will receive serious punishment. The RQ Rule can only take effect before the 10 minute mark of the match.



    If a player is banned, how do you know they won’t play on an alt?



    Registration will be done through discord, meaning that you will know exactly who is playing. If they go as far as creating another discord and joining on an alt, and still troll, the PvP only ban will be escalated into more severe punishment. Personally, I don’t think there will be that many trolls, but if that is the case, taking a hard handed approach will eliminate most. Not only that, but there are IP detection capabilities (confirmed by GS) if it gets serious.



    What map will this be played on?



    To keep things interesting, I propose that if done on a weekly basis, that the maps be rotated and kept at a 4v4. First week starting with WSB, then HF, EA etc. If done on a monthly basis however, it can be voted on by the players.



    Additional Note Regarding Match Frequency



    I really don’t know how often we should hold these weekly’s, I am making this post to gain some community feedback so please feel free to chime in. I personally think holding it on Friday/Saturday, twice a week is more than enough to get things going. Furthermore, we can have stuff like 3 matches a day (each match randomized), twice a week(Friday/Sat), instead of having only 2 matches because I think we can fit more matches into certain time frames. This will give players more opportunities to join in.



    Okay, so this seems interesting, but what's the point?



    Taking a more organized and balanced approach will help create a better competitive setting and would help justify the rewards given out at the end of matches.



    What kind of rewards are we talking here?



    Weekly Match Example :

    Winning Team

    Choice of :

    GM Title

    Archivable Item of Choice

    50x NT Magic Alchemy Clay



    Monthly Match Example :

    Winning Team

    GM WISH



    What's the point of joining if I lose then?



    This is exactly why I have put in place participation rewards such as :



    Weekly

    20x of each XP boost, 20x of 3 different consumables, and x10 NT Alch



    Monthly

    40x of each XP boost, 40x of 3 different consumables, and x25 NT Alch




    Okay, so you have kept PvP alive for one day out of the Week/Month, what about the other days.



    I can’t say much on how we can fix day to day activity, but my main objective with this post is to get something exciting going on with PvP, even if it does not occur everyday.



    Currently the PvP shop has some lackluster options, and really the only thing players spend their PvP Points on is, you guessed it, PvP Sets. So how can we improve this?



    Add more choices to the PvP Shop



    You see this is the obvious answer, but unfortunately it requires some help from our wonderful dev team which would make it take forever to implement such a feature (should have been requested ages ago, really).



    Hand out Rewards based on the ingame Ranking System



    Yeah, you know that leaderboard we have where we only get those crystals and a helmet for, maybe it's time to start handing out better rewards based on those rankings.



    I have to split the post here, too big. We will get into the other important part in the response below.

  • Finally, The Ranked System



    A stable ranking system is the pinnacle of every competitive game. Whether video game or real sports, ranking systems help separate the good from the best and allow a way of promoting PvP activity.



    So how will this work, we clearly cannot monitor PvP activity automatically, how will rankings be updated?



    Just as some background info, this system will use a common rating method called the ELO Rating System, often used in Chess and Esports oriented games as well (Elo doesn’t actually stand for anything).



    First, ratings will only be affected by the Weekly matches (assuming we go that route) mentioned above. I say weekly and not monthly mainly because a ranking system would operate extremely slow and ineffective under a monthly matchmaking system. This is why I am very much in favour of a weekly setup where ratings of players will constantly change every week.



    All players will begin at a base rating of 1500 at the beginning of the season (yes, there will be seasons). Using an ELO calculator, we can accurately track the change after win/loss of each players rating.



    How ELO Rating will be calculated



    Using an ELO Calculator, we can track the gain or loss of rating after each match. Assuming there are enough players, an attempt will be made to organize players with others around their rating to make for the most balanced matches possible. While I doubt this will be easy to do, it wont limit us from making the system work anyway.



    Lets say your team average ELO is 1600 and you are vs a team of average ELO rating of 1650. What happens here is if you win, you will gain more than the enemy had they won, so on and so forth. They also lose more than you would had you lost. One important takeaway is that while there is team average ELO, gain/loss will be calculated based on individual ELO vs enemy team average ELO. This is to keep gain/loss different and fair for all players on the team. For example, let's say you are a 1600 rating player who got put into a team with 2000 rated players vs a team with average of 2000 rating. Well, you should gain a lot of rating from that since you are against people with way higher rating than you, but your teammates should not be able to exploit the fact that their team rating is lower because they are matched with you, etc.



    Gain/loss will be recorded like this :



    1500 Win +6

    1506 Loss - 8

    1498

    Etc.



    I will be including a large spreadsheet to show what the ranking system may look like (it's extremely rough and bland so don't take it seriously, also I just put names in the order of how I can remember them so don't get angry at what fake rank I placed you as) :



    Grand Fantasia Example Rated Leaderboard



    Team / Guild Representation



    I made a column which includes the option for players to choose whether they want to show who they are representing (if they want to). Furthermore, teams can be created across different guilds in case there are future tournaments held where teams are not randomized with bigger prizes on the line.



    Class Sorting



    There may also be class sorting, to make things a bit more fair (both teams get a healer, etc.)



    GS Dark kindly provided me with a class sorter he made a while ago which can be viewed here :



    Class Sorting Method by GS Dark



    End of Season Rewards



    So the whole point of this leaderboard (other than ego boosting), is to get players across different brackets to actually compete with each other by fighting for a spot on the leaderboard. The rewards are not set in stone, I just made them up so they can be changed, but they stack with the rewards you get from the weekly matches you participate in. Combining different levels in the leaderboard will actually create more activity across the weekly held matches as people will be fighting to reach a higher spot on the leaderboard thus getting the matches to start more often.



    (You can check the proposed end of season rewards on the spreadsheet above)




    What if I want to participate in the Weekly matches, but don't want my rank visible?



    That is fine, you can participate in the Weekly matches for the rewards, but you are not allowed to receive any end of season rewards. Furthermore, your ELO will still be calculated to make sure team average rating is fair, it will just be hidden between the staff and yourself.




    Aeria : What's in it for us?



    In reality, if you think about it, promoting such events will get players to spend more and more on their characters to be able to carry their teams to victory. Especially when you consider the fact that teams are randomized and they cannot always guarantee wins for themselves. In this case, there will be a flow of gold/AP into these characters constantly as players look for more ways to win games.



    Conclusion



    There's a lot more I can say, but at the end of the day this is just some foundational work that I hope the GMs can take and refine into something more consistent. I really think there is room for improvement within the PvP side of things in this game and it's sad to just let it all go to waste. We don’t have to go down the rating system path, we can have the weekly and monthly matches just as is. I just think the leaderboard is what is missing to truly create some competitive drive that the PvP scene needs to become more active.




    Note Section



    Please make sure to read everything before giving feedback! Don’t miss stuff.



    -Jets

  • TL;DR (Too Long Didn’t Read)



    Monthly / Weekly Matches :



    Create small GM supervised matches that do not have to be large scale (streamed, hyped, etc.) with not too many restrictions. I have set out to create rules which will keep the matchmaking as fair as possible for everyone, as well as including participation rewards in a case where people may lose. These matches will help Aeria by having players invest more and more into their characters so that they are able to single handedly carry some of their matches. These matches will help players by providing a new incentive for PvP, rather than just being a farm fest for their PvP set.



    Regarding the weekly rated system :



    Example leaderboard can be viewed here :



    https://docs.google.com/spread…Nynv7uhE/edit?usp=sharing



    This system is proposed if the GMs are willing enough to follow down the Weekly match route.



    The GS team can be responsible for the management of the leaderboard, while GMs are responsible for team sorting, getting matches started, etc.



    The proposal includes the addition of a new manually maintained PvP System which allows a new ranked leaderboard by having GM supervised weekly matches.



    The weekly matches come with their own set of guidelines and restrictions to allow for the most fair type of matches possible.



    These matches will provide large rewards for players upon winning, as well as providing participation rewards even if the match is lost.

    An ELO Rating System will be used to help diversify players from each other and to allow for a more competitive PvP scene. Players have the option of not showing their ELO rating but will not receive end of season rewards if they choose to.



    Matches will be randomized based on your ELO rating so your team will always be somehow different each match.



    Seasons will usually last from 1 Month to 2.



    Additional features like class sorting and representing your own guild or team are proposed in the post above.



    The ability for players to represent guilds and teams creates more community engagement across players. Especially when being allowed to represent a team across different guilds, this allows players to enlist themselves in possible future tournaments where teams are created beforehand and the rewards will be greater (you can create your own team and join together).

  • This was very well put together, and well thought out.


    Though the "at least +15" rule is biased to an already spending biased game, this wouldn't get new people to start hoping, which I think is a huge issue in itself.

  • This was very well put together, and well thought out.


    Though the "at least +15" rule is biased to an already spending biased game, this wouldn't get new people to start hoping, which I think is a huge issue in itself.

    Thank you!


    And yeah I totally understand that, I just figured there has to be some sort of barrier of entry because otherwise people are just entering just to leech for the participation rewards etc.


    Can always lower the restrictions but I hope you can see where I am coming from.

  • I agree with ninetails,


    The +15 thing will put down the new players for taking it so here is a suggestion that might fix that, Make a separate bracket for the 3.


    1st bracket : No fortification brackets ( no fortification will be applied on this map and etc, including consumes and mastery " more like an all stock fight" )


    2nd bracket : +15 fortification brackets ( anything goes like normal players )


    3rd bracket : +20 fortification brackets ( anything goes like normal players )

  • Issue with so many brackets is there are probably not enough players to sustain it and the whole point of this is to try and get players to participate in something together. While I get that the +15 rule goes against what I just said, the restriction can be lowered, but I do not think having more brackets/separation will help activity wise.

  • maybe a maxed bracket would be better, i tried 40 pvp and to be honest +18 at the time was ridiculous. My character was good, but even i got peeved i gave up and lvled my chara. It was similar for 30 as well. As long as people can fort high and use nucs and cmbs it aint gonna work for everyone.

  • I think that while +15 might be a little high, lowering it would lead to too large of a gap between the players. +15 is a perfectly attainable (and yes, affordable) fortification level and allows players with midlevel gear to perform properly in the arena (I've done fine on both my chars, neither of which are above +17).


    give me active pvp arena tourneys or give me death

  • The thought of ELO and better rewards for PvP is super exciting. Better hero awards would be my dream come true. ;; Good work, Jets ♥ The fort thing is a bit of a bump, but it won't be too bad to work out.

  • Good work on the post.

    My question is, any restrictions? As in, consumes, HP titles, etc allowed?


    I do agree with the +15 restriction, it's not too expensive to get there. Even though it may be biased, it can give players something to do in-game [farming gold, lvling gear, etc] to improve their characters. It isn't a bad thing, it's PvP afterall, competition between players. If someone wants to win and live for more than 2 minutes they will need to step up their game in order to support their team and win. I'm sure even the OP players will try to improve where they can. It's like participating in a marathon, you need to train for it.


    Making brackets for forts may be difficult to monitor, someone participating in the +15 bracket might whip out a +20 in the middle of the match. As well as there not being enough players to host all these brackets.

  • Thanks for the responses everyone

    As of right now nothing set in stone restriction wise. I mainly came up with this to throw something at the GM team and see if they can give something back in return. I would really like there not to be TOO many restrictions so that we don't over complicate things like in previous tournaments, you really don't want too many rules (only necessary ones, ofc) if many people are participating. Makes it harder to organize and manage imo.

  • hi, just want to post my opinion here. i love to PVP but i dont like to spend too much gold for PVP. For me spending too much gold in PVP is just a waste, unless arena is so active. And i think there a lot people think same as me too. And i saw many people doing arena is just to get their PVP set only, after they got them, u dont see him/her again in arena. this happened because arena is wayyyy cost so must gold. not just well geared, but u need great geared too, consumables, and now VS stone. im a bit pissed off about VS tho. its open 3.00AM my time and i cant join it during the work days. And the price also in my opinion is expensive for "drop item". AGE need to do something about this, if not arena will died. u can see people shouting for many times, even in BC for joining arena. and there only 2 bracket active atm. And even started, there always a chance to fail due to RQ. AGE need to make arena balance for all players, so they can enjoy PVP and make arena active again. Not just arena, but the game also will be active. i believe there are much player love to PVP, but they also disappointed of term p2w in who is dominate arena. making categories as mentioned above is highly support. an example make +10 to +16 category, so any equipments above +16 will be muted.

  • Read through it all. Not a single thing I disagree with here, it's very well thought out. +15 is quite reasonable to get to and the rewards imo are fair for what people will put in to make this happen.


    I'm happy with just the fort restrictions, rest should be fine.


    Honestly all for this.


    warnut15 It's not possible to automatically mute fortifications past a certain level. VFS stones should be fine as currently anyone can participate in it.